I'll start by showing the chat between me and a Google employee. It happened last friday. I didn't modify anything, it's exactly as it was written originally. After the chat I'll add some context and clarifications.
Google Support
Hailey2:37 AM
You are now connected to Hailey. Please type your message and hit 'Enter' to send.
Customer2:38 AM
Hello
Hailey2:38 AM
Thanks for contacting Google Play Developer Support!
Hailey2:38 AM
Hi,
How can I help you today?
Customer2:39 AM
My app, the 12-hour world clock, has over 5000 installs since more than a week, but the number is not showing on its GPlay page, it's still at 1000+.
Hailey2:39 AM
May I please have the package name of the app you're referring to?
Customer2:39 AM
I know there can be a delay of a few days, but a week is a bit too much IMO. Is there a problem ?
Customer2:40 AM
Right away.
Customer2:40 AM
com.a50webs.intelnav.worldtime
Hailey2:41 AM
Thanks for providing
Hailey2:41 AM
Please hold on
Hailey2:44 AM
Please note that our specialist teams at Google Play work hard to detect the quality and policy-compliance of user app installs.
Hailey2:44 AM
In some cases, install metrics may be discounted or removed entirely if we detect fraudulent installs.
Customer2:44 AM
OK, so did you ?
Customer2:44 AM
Because then I should have had a warning, right ?
Hailey2:45 AM
Therefore due to the different algorithm of counting the install, the total count would be slightly differ to the install you are seeing in Console
Customer2:46 AM
Sorry, that's not good enough. I want to know the exact details of my specific case, not what "may have happened".
Hailey2:48 AM
I'm sorry but since our systems use sophisticated algorithms, we are unable to know the details of the install count
Hailey2:48 AM
I do apologize any inconvenience this may cause
Customer2:48 AM
I don't believe this.
Hailey2:49 AM
At this moment, I recommend you to wait some more time until your install reach to the 5000+
Customer2:49 AM
So you;re telling me that I "may have" fraudulent installs but you're not even able to tell me if I really have them ?
Hailey2:49 AM
We are only able to assume this result
Hailey2:50 AM
Since you are seeing the total install in the Console
Hailey2:50 AM
But the console and the Play Store use different algorithm
Customer2:50 AM
No, that's not the point. The point is that I did pay for some installs, but I don't know if they're fraudulent or not. They were keyword installs, and as far as I know, they are correct installs done by people who search for them in Google.
Customer2:51 AM
So AFAIK they are not fraudulent.
Customer2:51 AM
Also, you get money from all this. The money I paid for them, a good part of it gets to you.
Customer2:51 AM
For searches. Which is OK, but then why are they fraudulent ?
Customer2:52 AM
I mean, for search ads.
Customer2:54 AM
I don't know about waiting. As I said, a week is more than enough. IMO.
Customer2:54 AM
Anyway, even the fact that the console and the app page use different algorithms is completely wrong IMO.
Customer2:56 AM
And no warning. Iff there are fraudulent installs you should warn the developer as soon as possible, right ? The fact that you don't do it, it makes me assume you intentionally don't do it so I keep paying you for ads.
Customer2:56 AM
Are you still there ?
Hailey2:57 AM
I can't answer for the ads related question since I'm not in the AdWords team
Hailey2:57 AM
However, there must be no relation between the ads and fraudulent installs.
Hailey2:58 AM
It could be a user issue or any other related issue.
Customer2:58 AM
Do you agree there's a problem that you aren't able if I do have fraudulent ads, and if so how many ?
Customer2:58 AM
Yes, there could be many things. That's exactly why I'm asking for your help, to know what the exact cause is.
Hailey2:59 AM
Please hold on
Customer2:59 AM
(that you aren't able to tell me)
Hailey3:07 AM
Thank you for waiting.
Hailey3:08 AM
I have checked if I can provide you any further explanation on this topic but it was not successful.
Hailey3:08 AM
I really wish I could assist you further today.
Customer3:10 AM
OK, that's not good enough, by far. It's downright fishy.
Hailey3:11 AM
Sorry to hear that.
Customer3:11 AM
I tell you what I'll do. I'm going to wait 2 more days. During which time I won't pay for more ads.
Customer3:12 AM
If after this I don't have the 5000 installs listed, I'll make as much publicity to all this as I can.
Customer3:12 AM
This is unacceptable IMO.
Hailey3:13 AM
I was not able to assist you further today but please contact us again after two days to see your install badge status.
Customer3:13 AM
Also, note that I saved this conversation and I will publish it entirely.
Customer3:13 AM
OK, I guess that's it for now. I do hope in 2 more days I will have the installs OK.
Customer3:14 AM
Anyway. You do have a problem and you really should correct it.
Hailey3:14 AM
I will take ownership for this case and check your install status for next two days and contact you again via email.
Hailey3:14 AM
Will that be ok with you?
Customer3:14 AM
Because I'm certainly not the only one who has been through this.
Customer3:14 AM
Yes, thanks.
Hailey3:14 AM
I fully understand how you feel.
Hailey3:14 AM
Thank you.
Customer3:15 AM
But the bigger problem remains. Solving me now is not enough, I hope you realize this.
Hailey3:15 AM
I will be checking the badge status and reply back to you next Monday
Hailey3:15 AM
I am aware. I really want to help.
Customer3:16 AM
OK, great. Thanks again for your help, and hopefully by monday things get sorted out, at least in my case.
Hailey3:16 AM
I really hope the same.
Customer3:16 AM
OK, bye (and good luck).
Hailey3:16 AM
Hope you have nice weekend ahead and will get back to you on Monday.
That's it. Nice, right ? All very polite. A very polite way of saying "we don't want to tell you anything; you have a problem, we know what it is but we're not telling you".
I suspect withholding basic info like this is even illegal, but I'm not a lawyer and of course I'm not going to sue them. But I thought at the very least I'll make some publicity, maybe it will interest some. Though I don't expect much to come out of it.
Now, I did also contact my installs provider. As I said in the chat, I did pay for something like 900 installs. They were essentially all keyword installs, which as said above I think are correct installs, by no means fraudulent. So I wanted to know what they have to say about it. They're called keywordinstalls.com , and so far I've had a very good working relation with them, they delivered everything promptly, it went great.
As expected, their answer was that the problem is not with them but with Google's algorithm. Which of course I have no other choice but to accept, given that Google won't even provide basic details about all this. Also, they pointed out that the rankings of apps in Google Play searches are seriously improved by the keyword installs people buy from them. Which is correct, it happened to me too. Even now my little app appears among the first in searches based on the keywords I gave. Which is a very good point. If Google think the installs are fraudulent, why do they use them to compute the ranking of the app ? Smells like fish if you ask me.
So, at this point my main issue is clearly with Google. They don't even acknowledge that the problem is suspicious installs. Though at this point it's quite clear that indeed this is their problem. Most importantly, they don't give me the details of these installs, how many they are and when they happened. Ant third, they didn't warn me timely about it, which right now is less important but still. One can only guess their reason for this secrecy, but of course it doesn't look right at all IMO. To say the least.
They probably don't have a good definition of what constitutes a (potentially) fraudulent install, and quite possibly not even of what constitutes a theoretically fraudulent install. That's probably the main reason of their secrecy, they're trying to hide this sorry state of things but obviously it doesn't work. This plus probably the fact that they still like to get payed for ads, even fraudulent ones.
3 comments:
I've been giving this some more thought. And I've decided I'll file a complaint against Google. With the EU and with the US anti-trust watchdog, I'll find it.
The root problem, as I see it, is that they suspect me of having bot installs. Even though they won't acknowledge it explicitly. So the first question that comes to mind, why don't they guard the apps on Google Play with captchas ? In this day and age, bots aren't a problem any more, there is a simple solution against them, namely captchas. I've just tried and I was able to install my own app without any captcha test. I never heard of any such thing on GPlay; I tried googling for it but I found nothing. So as far as I can tell they don't do it. At the very least, the developers should have the option of guarding their apps by captchas. I for one would definitely use it. As for why they don't offer it, I can only think of one logical explanation, which is that they make money from fraudulent installs and want to do it further. Which is clearly a gross abuse.
The other problem is that they won't acknowledge anything clearly and only give vague and irrelevant answers, withholding important information. I'll also mention this in my complaints.
I notified Google about it , maybe they have something meaningful to answer. Though I doubt it. But anyway, I'll wait for a few days. If I don't hear from them, I'll file the complaints.
I'm not sure anything will come out of it but it's definitely worth trying. On the one hand, I can hardly believe I'm the first one who has this problem and complains about it. On the other hand, I would think that the EU will treat this as the abuse that it clearly is. I'd be rather surprised if they tell me to just forget it. Not that it's impossible but right now I don't expect it. Anyway, I'm very curious who will answer what at this complaint.
I finally got to send my complaint. Except that it so happened that just today, Google finally updated my installs count on the app page to 5000+, which is what I wanted them to do in the first place. So my complaint remains basically without object. :) I'm not going to pretend, of course, that they pay me penalties for the 3 months delay.
So I figured I'll write an e-mail to Frans Timmermans instead, maybe he'll be interested. I know he likes Google very much, generally speaking. As said, I don't expect much to come out of it but you can never know.
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NO82qL8er_E/XZVYkB8s1EI/AAAAAAAAAGs/oec0C_D79Pkaf-lnLXzi5xSRAdsBPyw-wCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Michelangelo_Fall_and_Expulsion_from_Eden_crop_proc.jpg
link-ul final la albumul lui Seibe
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOFaireQRvqJPZfx-pbINK4qBcRlwLMoopnIyzSMU2VSTHFF5vKiIOVi_KcCqdtKg?key=cW0wNUo3a1JMQzZlT1lGT0U4VzJmd2sxRlV6bmZn
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